HUGE problem! Train's missing, traffic stopped up, a huge incident!

[Stigah]

Hello! I hope someone here can help me out with this HUGE problem I am having. I am still in the training part, and if I worked as an Dispatcher in real life, I would have got fired by now, maybe jailed too.

So uhm. It started with a train, coming from Erle to Kleinstadt. It was supposed to stop at station 3, but I didn't see that before it passed the signal before the switch before the stations.

(Do not mind the lights from Signal A to station 3)

I stopped the train before it entered station two. I had to do this, because the route was already set automatic, and I couldn't change the switch. Therefore I had to move the train behind signal A, so I could change the switch, so he could drive, and stop at station 3).

So, I messed up REALLY bad, and this is how it looks right now:

As you can see, I messed up really bad. Train 938 and 7723 is waiting at the top of the screen. Train 19871 is waiting at station 1, and 7724 is waiting at station 3. I have no idea why it says that train 7724 is at the top of the screen, right behind Signal 16.

Ok, there is also two more trains at Kleinstadt, but I can't see them! They were also waiting at station 13 and 11 (Where 7723 and 938 is standing right now), but then I told them to change to shunt movement. That was the only way to tell them that they were allowed to drive trought the signal with red lights. I couldn't allow them to drive trought the signal with red lights when they were a normal train. (Train movement, not shunt movement)

They started driving, and then they disappeared from the screen. I then called Notruf, and told them to stop all the train, because I was scared. I didn't want any train to crash.

But my question now is: Where is my shunt trains? It is train 934 (ICE) and 7721 (RB). Their location is Erle-Kleinstadt, but where on the track?

They will, for no reason, don't move at all, even if I give them order to move. I want them to change back to normal trains, but it is impossible, even if I gave the order to them, to change driver.

As you can see on the image, I messed up really bad!

So. Do you know how I can see train 934 and train 7721 on the screen again? Because I have no idea where they are. I also had to let Dispatcher Erle use the left track, and he wanted to send train 19864, but it is never coming! And I can't change the direction of the track back to normal again.

As I said, train 19864 is never coming, and I can't tell Erle to stop that train, so I can send train 19871 that is waiting on station 1.

I know, I messed up realy bad! Is it possible to clean up this mess I have made?

Oh, I almost forgot something!

Signal 13 have been red for ages now.

It have always been red. I sent an technician to look at the problem, without luck. It was also red when train 934 was standing there. Train 934 was the train I changed to shunt movement, and disappeared. There were absolutely no other train at the station right now, or at Kleinstadt, so I don't know why the signal was red. Is it possible to manualy change signal 13 to green? I don't want to tell train 938 that he is going to continue as an shunt movement, because then that train is also disappearing.

So. Do you know how I can fix this mess? Do you know how I can make train 934 and train 7721 visible again? Do you know when train 19864 will come, or do you know how I can tell Erle to stop that coming train? I think a lot of passengers and train drivers are mad at me right now, hehe.

Sorry for the really long post, but I really hope someone here will take time to read the whole post, and want to help me out with this problem.

I thank you very much in advance! Please, help me!

[signalsoftRC]

One of the basic problems the german panels have is that they do NOT catch operator errors. So neither does this simulation...

For help, please read the wiki abour the following points:

- revoking routes (there is a basic difference between train routes and shunt routes. Notice that train routes are build up as train routes

- you can force a train to pass a signal by giving it the Subsidiary signal or as a last remedy give it a written order

Your simplest solution would be: restart the sim, try again, That's the fun of this simulation.

If you would mess up this seriously in real life you would need a real signal technician to clean up too :-)

[Stigah]

Thank you for answering! I know a little bit revoking routes. I know that there is a both train routes and shunt routes, but I don't know what the differences is. But I know how to activate both of them. But the problem is, is that I do not know where the "invisible" trains are standing.

I tried to give the trains a written order to pass a signal, but it didn't work at that moment. I don't know why.

I don't know how to force a train to pass a signal by giving it the Subsidiary signal.

And I really don't want to restart the sim. First I will try to fix up my big mess. If it is absolutely not possible, I have to restart.

[signalsoftRC]

http://www.railsignalling.org/signalwiki/index.php/Group_Buttons

look for ErsGT group button for the subsidiary signal.

YOU as a dispatcher must keep track of where your trains are. Especially (!) if you allow two trains on one track! You have to keep it in your mind or better: simply write it down or leave a magnet with text on the panel.

and in this case: yep, you have to restart the sim, as it is such a mess... your colleague would take over too at that situation.

But that's the force of this simulation... simply try it again, learned your lesson. Try and error. Like in real life...

[graham]

Hi Stigah,

That's quite a pickle you have got yourself into.

I have not played this one myself but just looking at it here is what I would suggest trying. Bear in mind I may be talking a whole lot of nonsense as I am a user just like you, but what's another saved game?

• Where you have the ID 3/7724 I think that has jumped there because you have put the signal at GL3 back to danger. Remember that this is how the descriptions jump to the next berth, when a signal returns to danger. I would put that description back to GL3 (your train overview shows that is where it is) and cancel the route out of GL3.
  
• You have both lines set towards you from your neighnour, I would offer 7724 via the top line and get it set so you can once again send trains down there.
  
• The trains that have "disappeared" are still there. I 'think" what has happened is they have passed a signal at danger and now you have 2-3 trains within the same block. Try and get them back to train driver as i think your shunters may not be qualified to drive on the main line.
  
• The signal where 938 is stopped will not clear as the circuit in front is occupied as seen by the red occupied lights. I think this may be where your "missing" trains are.
  
• Once you have tried the above, see if you can either set a route along the top line for 7724 (as it shows ready to depart) and then set a route from Sig A into the station.
  

These sims are very involved and have a steep learning curve so stay with it, they really are immersive when you learn how to use them, not that I'm any expert by any means.

Good luck and let us know your progress!

Graham

[TjoeTjoe]

HI Stig,

well somehow I hoope that you have saved this simulation state (you've got my e-mail address) as this situation is a real challenging one. (In other words, I would really like to have the sim file to see if it can be fixed.)

I advised you to post your questions on the forums two days ago so that others could also learn from it. But hey, this is impressive

First of couple of initial steps:

• It is a mess already so let's try to get a bit of silence on the panel. So first call your three neighbours that they should not send you any trains anymore, as you can not handle them at the moment
  
• disable all auto fleeting on the signals. One thing you do not want at the moment is that routes are being set automatically for a while. So use SBRT together with the respective signal button to switch off auto fleeting on sig A, P1, N2 and F
  
• revoke routes and overlap routes where needed. Looking at your images I think you have to clear the route set from 003 towards 102, by pressing FHT + the black button on the switches (so FHT + button switch 1 and FHT + switch 4AB). Not sure as I do not know what kind of route you set there
  
• on the right side of track 003 I see something strange. The main signal seems to be secured (square indicator is lit). Additionally, there is a little route set towards 202 (Dortheim), the blue exit route light is set. EIther try to revoke this route there using FHT again, or try to set a route from signal N3 towards 202, and then revoke that route again to get it away.
  
• - get the train number indications as good as possible. As Graham says, you must have revoked an exit route from N3 towards Erle. When the signal N3 changes to red (HaGT) the system thinks that the train has passed the signal, and the number will then be moved to its next possible position on the panel, depending on which route been set.. Use ZNP to set the numer 3-7724 back to track 3. Sequence : 37724 KS 003 ZNS.
  

There is no need to change drivers. In the German simulations, the driver type just indicates if the train is performing a shunt movement (purple) or train movement. As Richard said, it is really important to understand the difference between shunt- and train movements, as well as shunt and train routes. Refer to the Wiki for that: SignalWiki - Routes.

As soon as the "shunt" drivers pass a main signal which shows a Proceed aspect there state will change to Train driver. So don't worry about that.

Anyway, now you should have the situation that the panel is clear of routes being set and that all trains within the station are shown as where they are.

I am not carring about the level crossing being closed for ages at the moment. Do not let us put other traffic like cars etc in danger as well ;-)

Now, I think that the first train on the track Erle-Kleinstadt is 19862, as if I remember correctly, this would be the first train after a 7700-series train, as well as it shows the state standing which indicates to me that you might have order him to pass a signal at danger or whatwever. Anway I think this train has passed signal 23 more or less

If this is correct, then it is worth to call the driver and ask him to continu normal operation. I believe that you should have this option if you have previously order to i.e. turnaround and stop short at the next signal. If he starts moving then there is quite some chance that you will be lucky to get the rest on track Erle-Kleinstadt moving again.

The other option might be to apply the so-called Ersatzsignal using ErsGT + signal button. Refer to the Group Buttons page (see link by Richard) and read very carefully which procedure to follow. Switch of the switch chain, set the subsidiary signal on signal 23 etc.

Now, if things start moving, remember that the train number windows are messed up. So really take note of which train is actually coming your way. In this scenario you are lucky that you have the " cheat" window, better known as the train overview window, which is currently showing a lot of stopped trains

Let each train drive into the station one by one, fix the train number indication using ZNP801 as soon as you have a train in the station. Do this for each train.

I honestly do not know why train 19864 is not coming your way (yet). You could try to offer train 19871 to Erle, but honestly I do not think it is going to work as you already accepted the 19864.

But it is always worth a try. You could try 91984 E 101 ZNL to refuse the train (again) but not sure if that works

Well I think if have given you quite some suggestions on how to get this situation fixed. And as this is partly based on assumptions, first try if the above gets things moving.

If you get things moving a bit again, then we can always have a look on how to everything back to normal again

Erwin

PS: Don't forget to send me the sim file , if you have it

[Stigah]

Wow, hehe. Thanks Graham for the help!

• disable all auto fleeting on the signals. One thing you do not want at the moment is that routes are being set automatically for a while. So use SBRT together with the respective signal button to switch off auto fleeting on sig A, P1, N2 and F
  

Hello Erwin! I tried to do this, but then I just got an red sircle around the signal button, and the SBRT button.

• revoke routes and overlap routes where needed. Looking at your images I think you have to clear the route set from 003 towards 102, by pressing FHT + the black button on the switches (so FHT + button switch 1 and FHT + switch 4AB). Not sure as I do not know what kind of route you set there
  

I tried this to, but it didn't work either.

So. I think I will just start all over again. I will not deleted the sim file, and I have also sent it to you Erwin. I will wait on your response, and see what you did to get this to work.

Thank you all for helping me!

[TjoeTjoe]

Wow, hehe. Thanks Graham for the help! Hello Erwin! I tried to do this, but then I just got an red sircle around the signal button, and the SBRT button

If you press SBRT together with a signal button of which auto fleeting is already off, then you will see a red circle.

I tried your sim file, and there were one or two signals already switched off.

You can see which signals have auto fleeting enabled in one of the green tiles on the panel (with A, F , P1 and N2 indicators. When lit (white) then fleeting is on for the signal, if dark then it is off

With respect to revoking the route.

I had the same problem. I thought you had set a train route there (wondering how you had done that)

The answer to that was no. It was a shunt rounte. That kind of routes can be revoked with FRT. So do the same but using the FRT

So in the end I got all trains moving again. As you had accepted the train from Erle on the left track, you really have to let this one coming.

Call Erle and tell me that trains maybe send over track Kleinstadt-Erle (!!) again.

Finally, it seems that there is a bug in the simulator. All the trains run on Restricted speed. That might be caused by the fact that you had set out a Emergency Call (Notruf)

Even the trains that arrive on the panel (later) all show up with Restricted Speed.

QUite some work to tell each driver that he may resume Normal operation each time.

Erwin

[Stigah]

Thank you very much Erwin!

Now I have a new problem. I did not get FRT to work. Tried FRT together with signal A and R3 (didn't work), and with signal n.Ee and R3, but that did not work either.

It is this route you are talking about, right?

[TjoeTjoe]

It depends on what you had done. Did you set a shunt route using the grey buttons?

Anyway I used FRT and pressed the black buttons on the switches (switch 1 and switch 4AB and 5)

Erwin